[UPDATE] Refine Plus & Novice Channel 24/08/2016

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    @Mysticka What the hell are you talking ? Long range classes should have an advantage over close range classes ? I think you are drunk.


    If you are long range that doesn't mean everyone will start playing long range. Your way of thinking is funny .
    If you can't face balance between classes, it means you don't have the right items for pvp.


    Game is supposed to give each character advantages and disadvantages.
    In this moment, it only gives advantages to some classes and the rest are becoming completely useless, which is not ok.

    Uhm, which classes are becoming useless? I've seen weapon suras doing 2k dmg with hits, maybe even more.
    When you were caught in their hits and you couldn't run, the only result was pierced to death in couple of seconds.
    What stops you to mix long and short range players in a way you can attack properly?
    And is not like we are forced to PvP all day long.
    The only result now with this update is that i can dodge a stronger opponent. But i can miss my skills, like everyone else. And is not like i am some kind of PvP freak or the server has lots of fights everyday. I did some, i enjoyed, i ended up killed, just because the opponents had mixed long range archer and weapon sura and i couldn't fight both:)

    Yes, i am dragon mage. You have to rewrite your sentence, because before the update you could cripple the reactions of the opponent, therefore he couldn't fight back; still, moving speed, attack speed, (remove if sura) will offer you the chance to reach the opponent, you can still stun him. Now, i don't do duels and i don't plan to participate in the future, so you have to discover how to deal with the opponents under new conditions.

    @Nature2


    Budokan winners does not reflect the true nature or status of the pvp here. You may disagree with the choices, but you can't disagree with the fact that Budokan is played only by people who has a chance of winning. So yes it may happen that a black magic sura wins or an archer wins, but does this means that ALLLLLL of them will always win? No, it means that a particular player has stronger items. The same is for the healer class. The heal spell was altered by the previous team with a 120% boost, currently it heals 15-20k (because like every skill, it can crit)


    If you noticed on this thread i wrote that it was nerfed. Unfortunately we forgot to move some files and is not, but it will, apologies for that, but pointing out the heal despite we already said many times that the skill is overpowered and is going to be nerfed, is pretty silly. The balance is not over, it just begun.


    The message "if you don't like it, go elsewhere" is refered to those particular rude and unpolite players, that always think they can blackmail us with "if you don't change it, i quit". Is not with these kind of remarks that you give a feedback. That message is also refered to the players who does not want any changes. They want to log, stay on map1, win some pvp and log out. No new items, cause they don't want to farm again for the new items, no new system, because they don't want to deal with new stuff.


    The current situation is not good and a change is needed. You spoke about time and money and what not, but if the server close, isn't it worse?


    So for all the players who do not want anything new, this is not the place. For the players who think they have some kind of leverage or they think they can scare us like they did with the previous team, is not gonna work.


    As for the classes, the ranged class are supposed to be better in pvp, because they are not the best on pvm. Have you ever exped a mage or a black magic sura? You can't say that they are easier than other classes like weapon sura or body warriors. So their advantage should be pvp. Back in the days, which was the strongest pvp class in duel? It was the black magic sura, by far. But after the adding of 66 armors, with magic resistance built on armour and the liquids, it changed everything.


    I saw 2 warriors falling back on their ass in duel, AT THE SAME TIME, it was just too retarded to watch, it was like watching Anakin vs Obi using the force. I saw people trying to escape and getting dragged back like if they were stabbed with an harpoon. I saw players flying in mid air unable to move or perform skill but just ranting the "auh auh auh auh" moan, until they just die.


    I am pretty sure that if you are the player who inflict this and win the duel, you would be super pissed if an update removes you this, but on the other hand, the player who suffered all this would be super happy.

    I was about to comment something similar to Shadow and glad he did it in much better way that I would.


    I tried some PVP today and I was able to actively participate in fights without standing and watching my character bounce around without being able to move till it dies. A nice refreshment if you ask me.
    I am super happy.


    Reading all these complaints before I even entered the game today, I expected God knows what but it is not really such big deal. Except for those who are used to have an easy win with simply stunning their opponents.


    The sole fact that probably 80-90% of all characters are body warriors or mirage sura should speak for how balanced things were/are.
    That same percentage explains why so many unhappy players with the new updates I guess.


    Just my opinion tho.

    things come in balance bio mision now nerf warrios and sura by make less pierce crit damage assasin for me is not ruined just for 1 skill dagers have alot of atack speed and can be tricky oponents mages and archers now can be happy cuz they dont get stunlock remove is nerfed somehow but not completly heal gonna be nerfed i think all become how should be i play warrior and i will move on with that atleast we all have to think good for the server and respect the team work stop blame cuz some basics thinks now are better atleast sg is speacial than other servers be happy guys you play here and support the new.

    You can't disagree with the fact that those classes are weaker on pvm. You just can't. Of course they can still kill mobs, the server is easy and the game does not require any skills but just items, but the amount of time to raise one to 105 is a lot lot more than raising a body warrior or a weapon sura.


    And anyway in every mmo ranged class are the strongest on pvp.


    You never complained about the stun lock because the average player accused the auto attack. They though that "thing" called External force, was caused by the auto attack. Is not, is what is called stun lock and it works with or without auto, auto attack just make it easier to happen.


    You are barely 60, it is too early to speak about being on the TOP of pvp.

    Sorry but, if you need more time to level up and then you sucks at pvp, whats the point of picking up that class?


    Also this egomaniac philosophy that apparently is only here, on Metin2, that you should pick the best pvp class, is a nonsense to me. In every game you take the race that you like, despite if it sucks in pvp or not. You want magic? Black magic sura. You want to be fast? Body warrior. You want big boobs? Mage.


    Usually on a good MMO the tiers changes every year or so, so what was strong the past year, may not be so strong on the next. Does players behave like a kids and rant to quit all the times for this? No, they keep on playing. But here, everything becomes crap if is even a tiny bit weaker than before. It is a really bad way of see things imho.


    Also is not a matter of begging. Only a fool does not change mind, I certanly am not one and I changed mine many times on things that i did not want to do here, see for example the shop box.


    All I am saying is to wait until the balance is done.

    Nobody said it, because "suck" is a bit too much and because i suppose players got so used to it that they consider it normal lol, but the truth is that an average dragon mage had about zero chances to beat an average warrior or sura. Only if the mage had far better items he/she would win. With the healer was different because one skill was modded in the past by the previous team, but without it, would be the same. Considering that these 2 classes are hard to raise and they get beated up badly in pvp by the second best class on pvm, i'd say things were not ok before and the warrior and sura were the overpowered one, being good in everthing.

    Quote from Shadow

    :D hahahahaha :D


    But joking aside, like nature says just imagine 2 body warriors in a duel. is that normal? The most exciting thing in this game, in any war game, even for Real wars 1-1s can lead the whole war look at the Troy :D


    So when i duel with someone it wont be anymore exciting because there is no tactics. There is no good timing to finish combo or using a skill to block ur enemys attack. There is only pressing buttons now without using brain.


    its not like balance. its like payback for body wars and mirage suras. they did well with normal hits so thats enough for them. there is no more rocking with normal hits.


    But i suppose there could be another nicer way to follow. Increasing all skill damages in every class but for ww/charge/shaolin/thunder/Twister/rupture they wont be increased. Or, changing the reward of level 96 or 94 or 92 bio quest, adding to those archer,mage or BM classes like 30 more block bonus. or hidden avg resist. There is brainstorm needed and i believe if we whole community think about it we can give you nice ideas. But removing the so called stun lock 'is pretty silly'


    Moreover, i used to play archer and i remember some mirages mentals and bodies higher level than me crying to me because i won duels with running. i always told them that i have feet and i can use them so can they :D if i was caught by their mercyless sword well i was mostly the loser Side but i faced this and i played better and i somehow won. There was a chance for them to win but now no. Now in a duel a warrior can never beat an archer. Or a mirage to healer. There is just no way


    i think you made this just because you cant stand body/mirage class being best pvm and pvp which i would understand. But there is no need to mess up whole gameplay just give more dmg to other classes if you dont like it another solutions can be found if you ask us

    Hello guys, nice update. Thanks


    Talking from own experience, I think the game was very balanced before, I tested and dueled using every char possible. What mattered before was the SKILL of player, the gameplay. If you knew how to play, you had chances to win even against 'some better items'. Now I guess , the gameplay doesnt matter anymore, the experience of players doesnt matter.
    Im not complaining about the change but just sharing this.


    Had chance to fight and see fighting best pvpers in server, and knowing the items they got, wasnt always same winner. Imo it was balanced.
    Maybe now more balanced or less. but untill we dont test it ( and testing means weeks/months of playing ) we cant say better or not.


    Take care guys,cya around


    ..somebody make a list with mobs/boss that drops new 'refine plus' items and which xd , please. ty :DD

    The crown, it never has left me
    'cause the town will always elect me.


    HowHigh

    Like 1

    What tactics? Do you really think that us GMs do not watch you guys playing in the Shadows? You know how many times two warriors duel "hey no auto bro, is for nabs"


    There is no tactic, the first who finish the combo wins and the other can't even enjoy a duel but enjoy the sky because he is flying in mid air. Tactics and strategy are for games which have rollings, parry with shields, teleport and many other things. Metin2 is just about items and pressing 6 hotkeys for skills. At least, in duel. In raid, there might be more strategy because you need to coordinate with others.


    Whats the point on raising the skill damage of those class, if the stun lock prevents them from casting skill? It doesn't just prevent you to move, it prevents you to skill too. I can give you a nuke, but if you can't press the button to use it, is useless.


    Last but not least, I am sick and tired of these silly accusations regarding:


    - Players
    - Nations
    - Classes


    I don't care if you are blue red or pink, i don't care whats your nick in game and i don't care what class you use. I have no prejudices or preference for any of you. I may like some of you and dislike some others, as every human being in this world, but i treat all of you in the same way. I don't place any like or dislike on the forum for this precise reason.


    From time to time i get accused of something just because SOME of you players disagree with certain changes. I got accused of modding items, which is a double insult cause you either think i am dirty or an idiot. Only an idiot with limited access would mod items, they can be tracked, i would add a hidden bonus on the character itself and none of you would notice.


    Then i got accused of prefering a nation because of the national bonus exp, even if it is clear that i don't held the event.


    Now you claim i did this change because i somehow dislike the sura being the best on pvm and pvp? I am a weapon sura ingame, I test the updates using a weapon sura, and my favorite class is the weapon sura.


    All I care is making the server better. You don't agree with the choices? Ok good, but don't search silly conspiracy theories.


    Exactly, if you need more time to level up and then sucks at pvp, what's the point of picking up the class? Thing is, now dagger sins are the worst class in the game with no doubt. I do all my pvm with my main character who is a dagger sin and i'm able to do what I want, but of couse that if I had a warrior or sura it would be much faster, easier, and so more profitable.


    And in PvP, anyone who wants to test, and I believe the team does it all the time, just has to equip a dagger sin and other class with the same equipment and see who wins a 1v1. I believe that in a raid there isn't still that much difference because there is cooperation, but in 1v1 is ridiculous. Now, when i'm doing PvP against a long range class, if the opponent decides to run away and only do skills of long range, the only skill i'm able to use is the poisonous cloud. All the other skills fail, they only hit if I'm able to guess the exact moment where the oponent will stop to cast a skill, but even guessing that is difficult to hit because the animation time of skills is not that high and the opponent will be back to it's "race" in a matter of seconds.


    I've left my opinion about the update, overall it is a very nice one and I agree that stun lock was ridiculous, I couldn't even get up to use skills against some body warriors. But now, how can I even hit with my spinning dagger? It is only kind of a PvM skill now, because how am I suppose to hit a spinning dagger against a long range class if they're running in circles? It's almost impossible, and also only being able to hit once, except extremely rare cases, brings the skill damage to really really low values. A balance is really needed.


    But my suggestion was: as someone mentioned before, this is an hack and slash game, and I think that you could still allow for the Spinning Dagger combo to happen without the inclusion of the Stun Lock effect.


    I'm thinking about the last hit still pushing the character back but not making the character fall. I think that with that mechanic, Stun Lock wouldn't happen anymore, because characters you got pushed back would not fall and would still be able to move, and it would still be possible to do the Spinning Dagger skill and the game would be much more realistic because when someone pulls us back we don't stay in the same position. And of course that the game is not realistic, but it has many realistic features on PvP and as it is now we are just neglecting ones and not others. Would this have the intended results?

    you even said yourself when i was writing my post. That you wanted to change this way body/mirage being good in everything or im blind?


    -i get this complain too, using auto attack, but 90% of the time is not even choosed on my left click. i just use it for metins. and i dont care what they say. the only thing matters, i win or i lose


    -is not like who finishes combo first, wins. So how i win vs body wars as a mirage sura when remove doesnt work? i you didnt know, you can dodge your enemy with skills. if you use skills with good timing then you wont see the sky only


    -i agree, normal hits are just OP, and thats why u gonna nerf the pierce too, if is still not enough, i said better solutions needed. Why are you so closed to advices?


    -again its not like im mirage and i wanna rape more with sword hits. But like i dont like seeing two warriors dueling in same coordinate

    The assassin, at least the dagger, is far better on pvm than a mage or a black magic sura. By far. On pvp, in raids, is deadly. Many players can die from 1 backstab, Ghost attack, due to the skill formula, stealth skill and back damage bonus is the strongest skill on the entire game.



    This is not a translation done with our ass, is taken directly from the korean. "Whirl around enemies with daggers", this is a clear description of what this skill does. It doesn't say 3x damage on enemy, nope, it says exactly what it is supposed to do, to hit enemies lined up that are coming to you.


    Also read the yellow description, Splash attack. Splash attack is a description that some skill has, like Dragon Roar, it is used when a skill hits AOE, or multiple target but in a specific zone.


    That skill is not meant to do what it did on these years, even the Shaoline Stance cleary states that they are 3 hits, but the damage is split by 1/3.


    So the spinning daggers combo makes the game realistic? Ok :thumbsup:

    No i said that is stupid that some class are good at everything and some are bad at everything, and that i wanted to balance. Not that i somehow have a thing against suras lol.


    Because as i already said, the auto attack does not cause any effect, it just make it all easier.


    Who stun lock the opponent first always win. Also few players miss the skills but the najority don't, expecialy melee character, because once they stun lock all they need to do is pressing the skill button and they will hit.


    I am opened to advices, but remember that this server was closing before my arrival because it was based on player's suggestions and many of them were just crazy. You can't relay on what the players tells you to do all the times, because they usually suggest stuff that power up their character ignoring the rest.


    What you can do about people who claims i mod items and love a particular nation? Nothing, but don't add to the list that i love a class :)

    I didn't say that the spinning dagger combo makes the game realistic lol I just asked for you to do duels with the same equipment using a dagger sin and a long range character, for you to see now how unbalanced it is, you're talking as if the dagger sin damage is super high. Let's take Shaolin Stance for example. If you get all 3 hits, it is the higher damaging skill of body warriors, the exception only being in cases where the opponent is packed with defence to the point your skills do 0 damage, and then you get 0 dmg from Shaolin and get some damage by sword spin and the other skill which i dont know the name in english. I now get from your explanation that we must be mistaken of the use of Spinning Dagger, but even so, it's similar to the Shaolin Stance case in warriors, that being that if you only get 1 hit with spinning dagger it's the lowest dmg skill besides the 6th one (which i don't understand the use so far) and if you get 3 hits it's the highest damaging skill. So dmgwise is similar to one skill of warriors who is intended to be a 3 hit skill. But ok with that description we might be wrong the all time, even though the combo always worked fine and didn't cause any unbalances in PvP and also it was a trademark of dagger sins that doesn't exist anymore and it sucks cause that's taking probably the coolest skill we can use lol And also one of the few skills in the game to which you need good timing and position to execute.



    Please reply about this, is this possible?:



    "I'm thinking about the last hit still pushing the character back but not making the character fall. I think that with that mechanic, Stun Lock wouldn't happen anymore, because characters you got pushed back would not fall and would still be able to move, and it would still be possible to do the Spinning Dagger skill and the game would be much more realistic because when someone pulls us back we don't stay in the same position. And of course that the game is not realistic, but it has many realistic features on PvP and as it is now we are just neglecting ones and not others. Would this have the intended results?"

    If you take zero resistance case, then ghost attack in 3 times stronger than shaoling stance and at least 2 times stronger than whirlwind. We are speaking about top pvp or at least normal pvp. I doubt that a player who has p skills has also zero resistance.


    Why all hates the 6 skill? Poison cloud is the weakest in term of damage, it may deal more damage cause it deals magic attack, but the 6th skill is stronger than rapid attack, with the exception that rapid attack get a boost from stealth.


    And again you are talking about now. How many times I have to say that the balance has just begun? Why can't i get a little trust instead of these silly complains? It is really so frustrating.


    I read it Skyquake but again, making your character fall and get buggy again just for doing a skill that it was never meant to do 3x damage, is not ok imho.